Thrillers W/a Twist | Cate, Kim, Briana, & Stephanie

Spooky Season is officially here! For many readers, this is the perfect time to pick up a heart-pumping thriller. In today's episode, Cate sits down with Kim, Briana, and Stephanie to explore their favorite page-turners. Whether you're drawn to psychological suspense, horror, or paranormal thrills, this episode has something for you. To make things even more exciting, we've chosen titles with an added twist! These books all contain a significant plot twist that fundamentally changes the reader's understanding of the characters, events, and motivations. Be warned, you may need an extra nightlight nearby, because these chilling reads will surely keep you up at night! 

Book Recommendations

We Were Liars by E. Lockhart

Bunny by Mona Awad

Hidden Picturesby Jason Rekulak

Intro Music by nikitsan

Transcript

Thrillers with a Twist

Cate T.: [00:00:00] Cheers. Welcome to Top Shelf with the librarians at Russell Library. I'm Kate Saha, joined by Kim Spock. Hello, Stephanie Rush. Hi, and Brianna Gagnan. Hi. Thank you for joining us today. On Top Shelf, you'll hear about compelling reads from the people who know books best. Our librarians will share titles that connect to a unique theme each episode.

Cate T.: This show will also invite you to learn about the many services offered here at Russell Library. If you're not local, no worries, 'cause chances are high that your local library will have similar gifts to offer. We are very excited to turn the page with you. The focus of today's show is Thrillers with a [00:01:00] Twist.

Cate T.: But before we get started, full disclosure, if you prefer not to know that a book has a twist, this may not be the episode for you. We certainly don't want to spoil anyone's reading experience, but if you are leaping into spooky season and in search of a real page, Turner. Then we've got you covered in the colder, darker months.

Cate T.: The intense pull to come home from work, tuck yourself under a cozy blanket and read for hours is often too great to ignore. Although for people like us, it's always too great to ignore light or dark, hot or cold. We certainly don't need an excuse to curl up with a good book, do we? I literally 

Briana: did that on Sunday all day long.

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. I would've been disappointed if you hadn't, Brianna. Yeah. But something about this time of year really lends itself to thrillers. A thriller is designed to keep the reader on the edge of their seat, their fast pace. Full of action and conflict, and there's usually a clear villain. Present. Thrillers and [00:02:00] mysteries are often lumped together, but they're distinctly unique with a mystery book.

Cate T.: The main focus is that something happened in the story, and the goal is to uncover the truth. They involve usually a detective and a who done it sort of scenario. A thriller, on the other hand, is all about suspense and typically includes an event that's currently happening or will occur. As the reader, you're really along for the ride.

Cate T.: Today we're going to take these thrillers a step further and throw in a twist. These books all contain a significant plot twist that fundamentally changes the reader's understanding of the characters events and motivations. Similar to unreliable narrators, which we discussed last month. These books will leave you asking what the actual bleep.

Cate T.: So let's start with 

Stephanie: Steph. So before I actually, before I tell, tell my book, I just thought to myself, don't all thrillers have a twist in [00:03:00] theory. Okay. Right. Because now 

Briana: I'm like, wait a second. Yeah. I feel like that's sometimes the twist is good and sometimes it's gone awful. Right. But I feel like. 

Stephanie: Twists are really inherent to feel right.

Stephanie: They it. Okay. Yeah. 

Kim: I'm thinking, 

Stephanie: yeah. 

Kim: But I think about Dan Brown novels, those rarely have a twist. 

Stephanie: Okay. And those are th 'cause they're fast paced. 

Cate T.: Yes. That's funny that you bring that up. 'cause I literally just watched, um, da Vinci Code last night Oh, interesting. And Angels and Demons the day before that.

Cate T.: And you're right. Suspense, not necessarily as many twists, but that's an intriguing question. Okay. Yeah. All right. Now I'm thinking about it. All right, we'll keep that in your brain. Okay. So tell us what you brought today along with a brief description of the book. 

Stephanie: Okay. So today I brought, we were Liars by E Lockhart.

Stephanie: This is a YA book that came out in 2014. Hmm. Um, bringing a real back list title today. Um, and I read this book back like about 10 years ago when it first came out. Um, but it always sticks out for me when I think of thrillers with twist because I did not see the twist in this one coming [00:04:00] at all. Um, so this is a YA book about a girl whose family vacations on an island every summer and the group of teens that form a bond that turns destructive.

Stephanie: Um, and that's really all I can say because the plot has to be pretty cagey for this one to work. Which I feel like is gonna be the theme today. We can't really reveal too much. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna have to dance around a few things. Yeah. That's pretty much all I can give you. 

Cate T.: Okay. Yeah. So what about this book sparked your interest, other than it being ya?

Cate T.: Why did you pick it up? Yeah. 

Stephanie: Um, so I picked this book up when I had fully, before I'd fully come into my own as knowing my reading taste. So I think I went to the library, went to ya, and just picked it up based on the cover because that's how I used to pick up books. 

Kim: I love that. 

Stephanie: Yeah. I don't do that so, so much anymore.

Stephanie: I do it all the time. Um, but yeah, that's what I used to do and the library, um, I was staying in a small town. And the library was really small, so I just walked over and was like, well this is their selection. I guess I'll grab this book. Um, and I also used to read a lot more thrillers back then before I got kind of burnt out on the genre.[00:05:00]

Stephanie: But the cover for this is really cool. And it looks a little myster. Mys, sorry, mysterious. It looks mysterious 'cause it's slightly blurred. Like it has people waiting in the ocean, but it's a little blurred out. So you know that something is kind of a miss. And I was like, okay, that looks cool. It's a really cool cover.

Stephanie: It's a really cool cover. Except for when they did it for Netflix, they did the thing where they do the Netflix cover, not as good. Read the one with the original cover. It looks cool. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, that's a good tip, tip when you 

Cate T.: do 

Stephanie: that. 

Cate T.: Now, was there anything or any one in this book that you specifically identified with.

Stephanie: Well, this is a book that has a group of friends. Mm-hmm. And I always like a book with like a core group of friends because you automatically glom onto one character or another. Um, but with this one, you're in the POV of one of the characters. So it's pretty easy to just be her and her perspective and then just go along for the ride.

Stephanie: So I, I guess you're supposed to be the main character. Hmm. 

Cate T.: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. I don't know if, if you can read it any other way 'cause you've got that first person point of view, so. Mm-hmm. I guess you are that main character, whether you [00:06:00] like it or not. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's hard talking about these books 'cause again, we can't give too much away.

Cate T.: Right. But in your opinion, the fact that we even mentioned that these books have a twist. Mm-hmm. Is that a 

Stephanie: spoiler? For me personally? Yes. If someone says, oh my gosh, this book is so good you, you're gonna love the Twist. I'm like, well, I know that you've ruined it. Well, not ruined it, but you've spoiled it a little bit for me.

Stephanie: Yeah. But you know, maybe it's a small twist, maybe it's a big twist, but knowing going in kind of ruins it a little bit for me. A lot of people will lead with the same thing with a movie. Like, this movie was so good, you won't see the ending coming and not, but then you spend the whole book waiting for the twist.

Stephanie: Right, right. And it kind of takes you out of it because you're anticipating you're not fully in it. So for me it kind of takes a little bit of the. Um, feeling of being swept up mm-hmm. And tones it down a little bit. Yeah. Does that make, does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It brings 

Cate T.: me back to your, the question that you posed at the beginning.

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. Like, you do expect there's gonna be some twists Right. In these books. And, and that's 

Stephanie: why I don't pick up so many thrillers [00:07:00] 'cause I don't want the experience to be tainted, knowing there may be a twist, 

Cate T.: but if we assume there will be a twist, then does it taint it? 

Stephanie: You just go in expecting a twist.

Stephanie: He's asking the really hard question. Hard question today. That's the thing too. Like I read a lot of horror. Yeah. And sometimes horror has twists and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So a lot of times I just read the description and then just jump in. Yeah. So if there's a twist, cool. And if not, I'm not anticipating it and I'm not bummed that there is or isn't 

Cate T.: one.

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. 

Stephanie: Okay. That's fair. Yeah. Like, don't tell me this twist, just let me do the thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Can there be too many. I, I think so. Okay. I think two. So how many twists? Is it twist? Too many. It's two. Two is the max. That's a good number. Two is the max because. When there's too many twists for me, it feels like the author hasn't fully figured out what they want to do.

Stephanie: It seems messy. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Yeah. 

Stephanie: Um, and if you don't know what the plotting is gonna be, too many twists feels like band-aids. Yeah. And I'm just like, do what you wanna do. Make a clever twist. [00:08:00] Maybe another small one, but don't overload me. 'cause then you're, it just the writing seems all over the place and the, the writing doesn't seem finely tuned if you're throwing twists all over the place.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. I also hate a twist on like the last page. I'm like, you're gonna like this. Yes. I mean, so I'm like, alright, if it's done right, I think two max can work, but I really only just need the one. Okay. If any. 

Cate T.: Yeah. I, 

Stephanie: I 

Cate T.: kind of feel the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do. I, 

Stephanie: I, I mean, I would love for someone to debate this and be like, six twists is the best.

Stephanie: Please. But, well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what y'all have to say. Yeah. Yeah. Would you recommend this book. Yes. However, thrillers have come a long way since this book came out, so I feel like this particular twist might be a little tired at this point. Um, so I actually think this is a good book to recommend to someone who doesn't read a ton of thrillers because they might not know to expect the particular twist that's coming.

Stephanie: I think if you're really well versed in this genre, you might predict it and I won't. You [00:09:00] won't have as much fun. So this is maybe for like a beginner thriller reader or for someone who just wants something to mix it up. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: But if you read a lot of thrillers, I think this is actually gonna be a disappointment.

Stephanie: That's That's really good to know. Yeah. I thought back on it and I was like, oh yeah, if I picked this up now, I would be like, eh. But in 2014 I was like, whoa. Mm-hmm. 

Cate T.: So I went through this phase. I think I was telling, I can't remember which one of you I was telling that I was super into a L Stein when I was like 13.

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. And I was. I don't, I, I'm not talking about Goosebumps books. Like he had a different Fear Street versus blah blah. Maybe it was Fear Street. Yes. Yes. And I was obsessed. With these books. It was like when I really got into reading. Mm-hmm. And I feel like by the millionth book, then I was like, okay, I know what's gonna happen, you know mean.

Cate T.: Right, right. So it does, you're, you're, what you anticipate does change if you're so 

Stephanie: saturated in that genre. Yeah. Yeah. You really have to throw something really good at me or else I'm just gonna be like, eh. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Right. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Gets tired. [00:10:00] Alright, well thanks 

Cate T.: Steph. Yeah. I'm excited to hear about everybody else's thoughts.

Cate T.: I know. 

Briana: Brianna, what did you bring? Tell us about it. So I've talked about this book off and on in some of the other episodes I've been in, but I'm gonna talk about Bunny by Mona Awad, I think I'm saying her last name. Right. So this is the description without me trying to give too, too much away. Mm-hmm.

Briana: But it's a good basis for kind of what this book is about. Samantha couldn't be more of an outsider in her small, highly selective MFA program at New England's Warren University. A scholarship student who prefers the company of her dark imagination to that of most people, she's utterly repelled by the rest of her fiction writing cohort.

Briana: A click of unbearable rich Girls who call each other bunny and seem to move and speak as one. Everything changes when Samantha receives an invitation to the Bunny's fabled smut salon, and finds herself inexplicably drawn to their front door. Ditching her only friend Ava in the process. As Samantha Plunges, deeper and [00:11:00] deeper into the bunny's, sinister yet saccharine world, beginning to take part in the ritualistic off-campus workshop where they conjure their monstrous creations, the edges of reality begin to blur.

Briana: Soon her friendships with Ava and the bunnies will be brought into deadly collision. 

Stephanie: See, that was more information that I thought you were gonna give. I 

Briana: think 

Stephanie: that 

Briana: No, that's good. You didn't give anything away. But that was more than I was expecting. Yeah. Because I went on Good Reads. 'cause I was like, what, what did they say?

Briana: And is it gonna give a lot away? And this is like, so I, I literally took that right off of Good Reads and just like edited a couple things out here and there. But that's, isn't it like just under 300 pages? Yeah, I was gonna say it's not very long. It's, it's not very long. It's a really quick read if you get into it.

Briana: Like I did, like right away. 

Cate T.: Yeah. 

Briana: Now I don't. 

Cate T.: Is this sort of in your, in your genre, like what, what made you pick this one up? What sparked your interest? So I picked 

Briana: this up because my friend on Bookstagram read with Juul. She's amazing, has raved about this book a lot, [00:12:00] and so I was like, you know, maybe I'll give it a read because I've seen it posted about fairly often.

Briana: This came out in 2019 and I was like, it's not my normal vibe. Mm-hmm. But I was like, let's take the plunge and see how it goes. And I'm glad I did because it's not what I normally would read, but I loved it. So much like it's, and the other book by her just came out. Yeah. So, so I feel like a lot of people have been rereading this one.

Briana: Yeah. Like the prequel slash sequel to Bunny, which is called We Love You Bunny, which is a phrase said very often in both books. Um, came out on the September 23rd. And the author's actually coming to the Madison, rj Julia, to talk about both books. Oh. Probably mostly the one that just came out, but I'm going because I'm super excited to do Yeah, yeah.

Briana: To see her this, it's, this book sounds sinister. It's, yeah. Like sinister, culty, 

Cate T.: thriller. Weird. Mm-hmm. And does it have that element of, because these girls are wealthy, that they're sort of above the rules? Yeah. Kind thing. [00:13:00] Something 

Briana: secret society kind of feel is kind of. F subtly commented on, which I think as a reader, you're gonna see as you go throughout this book that.

Briana: Like privilege, wealth that comes up in different ways throughout this 'cause Samantha can't stand them because mm-hmm. Like they're all these rich white girls. Yeah. And she's like, Ew. I mean, 

Stephanie: I do know you love 

Briana: a 

Stephanie: rich people behaving badly book. 

Briana: Yeah. It's that, but not Okay. I hate hate those books. I love that.

Briana: Yeah. Like it's rich. So yeah, like rich, young, white women at a. Prestigious university. Yeah. Okay. In a MFA program. Yeah. Like I feel like it doesn't get more kind of academia mm-hmm. 

Kim: Than that. 

Briana: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and I just got sucked right in almost the same way. Samantha gets sucked right in. Mm-hmm. When she gets that opportunity to go do the SMU along, which when I read that I would cackled for like five minutes.

Briana: I was like, that's muscle. I was about to say, 

Kim: yeah. When and where? [00:14:00] Lemme know. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Now I'm going off book for a second, but do, um, do you feel like for readers who really like an ambiance and a place like a, you know, sort of a Hogwarts vibe, does this book give any of that? Like, do they go into the feel of the, the university.

Cate T.: Or the school that they're at. 

Briana: I think you get the feel of it, but it's not cozy. It's not cozy in that way. It's not be cozy. It's like jarring at times. Okay. Um, and their per, like, their relationships and their relationship with their professor is like very intriguing and like dark and weird. And so it sounds 

Stephanie: character driven.

Stephanie: Character driven. Okay. More than, more than the place. But the vibe 

Briana: of being in like that world of academia and like kind of. The commentary that goes on about it is really cool too. Okay. But it's not at all cozy. Like, don't read this. If you want something cozy, okay, read this because you're gonna throw yourself into some really weird stuff.

Briana: Great. Some weird places. Weird places. You actually might be convincing me to read this with a little [00:15:00] like horrific scenery at times. So if you're not good with any sort of horror element, that might be a little graphic. No. 

Kim: Okay. 

Briana: Oh, and it's not the whole book, but there's certain scenes where you're gonna be a little like.

Briana: Okay. I fully came in being like, this book is not for 

Stephanie: me, but I dunno, you're changing my mind. 

Briana: So it's 

Cate T.: definitely horror, thriller, 

Briana: thriller, horror, like thriller with horror elements. Okay. Um, because you get kind of the cult vibes Okay. That start to play out, um, with some imagery that you're like, oh, I didn't expect that at all.

Briana: Um, but then you get the thriller of the, like, what's going on and how did we get to this point? And like, what is. Happening. Mm-hmm. Because there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens. Okay. Like literally just throughout. 

Cate T.: All right. All right. Yeah. So was there anything or any one in this book that you identified with?

Briana: So I would say like. What brought me in was all of the other people I knew talking about it and the cover, like I saw the cover and I was like, this is cool. I don't know what this is. I [00:16:00] don't know if I'm gonna like it, but I'm gonna pick this up and read it. I did not like a single person in this book.

Briana: Okay. That's a theme for you lately, not even the man character. No. 

Stephanie: You've been reading so many books with like unlikeable characters. I feel like lately, 

Briana: yeah. Like there for me, there may have been moments where I felt for Samantha and I can't say more than that. Mm-hmm. But for the most part, nobody here was likable.

Briana: I was kind of disgusted with them. Mm-hmm. As a whole. Mm-hmm. I liked the bunnies just 'cause they were so creepy and weird. Like, they're just like, we love you bunny. Hi bunny. Yeah. And they, it's like that talking is one that I mentioned earlier, like it's very creepy and it's really well done. 

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. It's sounds creepy like Greek chorus, but.

Stephanie: But yeah, unsettling. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Alright, so for you, do you think that mentioning that a book has a twist is a spoiler? 

Briana: For me, it's not because I want to know, because I read so many thrillers. I'm like, oh good. Like I wonder what the twist is and like how is this gonna compare to other ones I've read? So as you were saying, Steph, it's like, because I've read so many, yeah.

Briana: [00:17:00] Sometimes I'll read one and someone else I know will like hype this up as like a five star read and I'll read it and I'm like, oh. Right. And I think that's why I'm picky with really, really picky with thrillers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like I'll read whatever. Yeah. But once it gets to the point where I know that the twist or twists have happened, once I'm done reading, I'm like, yeah, that was pretty good.

Briana: Or sometimes I'm like. I probably could have predicted that, or I might have started to, and I like to be completely like, like how we kind of said like what the actual bleep. Mm-hmm. I wanna be completely confused. Like this book, I Googled the ending 'cause I was so confused. And then when I read what Google explained to me, I was like, oh wow.

Briana: I was like, what? 

Cate T.: Yeah. Oh, so it stayed with you for a while after the fact. 

Briana: It's very much so interesting. Yeah. It's just, and then you, and then I went into this like rabbit hole ha of looking up the kind of symbolism I could have missed while I read this too. And that's where I was like, oh yeah, they really commented.

Stephanie: Okay, take back what I said. Do not spoilers for me outside the episode. I'm gonna it. I won't. Okay. So 

Cate T.: Steph [00:18:00] has a two twist maximum. Yep. What about you? How many twists are too many? 

Briana: I would agree with that. 'cause I feel like almost to what you're saying to me, it feels really sloppy. Like you're just throwing this stuff out there to like, and you're like, well, okay.

Briana: I don't know even know what's going on in a bad way. Yeah. It becomes a distraction. It's a distraction. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But I know there's something else about this book. I don't wanna say. 'cause I think it's gonna ruin it. Okay. Which I may have already said in previous episodes when talking about this, so if you listen to last month's, don't listen to what I said.

Briana: Okay. But, but there's an element to this that for me, like as you were saying, you don't like when someone's like, oh my God, you're gonna get to the last page and be like, what? This book is literally that. 

Stephanie: I had, as soon as it's literally, I was like, I'm looking at your 

Briana: face. I'm like, it's a last page reveal, isn't it?

Briana: It's, I let every single person, like I just talked to somebody at the gym about this book and I was like, you are going to read the last page and you're gonna be completely blown away and you're, everything is gonna be just. Crazy. 

Cate T.: So it's the type of book that makes you go back through the entire thing?

Cate T.: Yeah. And to see where you went wrong. Like at [00:19:00] some 

Briana: point I'd like to read it again and see if I catch things I missed the first time around. Yeah. Yeah. But this literally is the weirdest thing I've ever read, but the most like addictive. Mm-hmm. Like I'm sitting there and I'm reading, I'm like, this is, what am I reading?

Briana: That's the thing. Weird. But I can't stop. 

Stephanie: That's the thing with weird books, you can't put them down, even though you're like, what is going on? You can't stop because you have to know. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. 

Briana: Brianna, would you recommend this book? Yes. Um, I recommend it and I recommend that if you're listening to this, like note what we've talked about.

Briana: But if you have any way of going in blind. Yeah, like, don't read anything else. Don't ask anybody else about this. Just go in blind. Mm-hmm. And let it take you on the ride. You're gonna go on, talk to you. Don't think you about it after anything 

Stephanie: away. No. It don't feel like you did it all. No, I understand the vibe.

Stephanie: I have some, the have some thought on what might be happening, but I, those are just me thinking I could be completely wrong. I know nothing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So good job with that. Yeah. Oh, 

Cate T.: thank you. All right. Funny. Thank you. Yeah. [00:20:00] Okay. Kim, how about you? What did you bring for us? 

Kim: So this is an example of a book that I went into completely blind on.

Kim: I brought Hidden Pictures by Jason Kulik, and in the story, Mallory Quinn is a. Former addict just out of rehab who takes a job as a nanny to Teddy, a five-year-old boy in an affluent community of Springbrook, New Jersey. It's a dream job for Mallory. She lives in the cottage behind the main house, goes for runs every day, and starts to find a sense of stability.

Kim: After having been in rehab, Mallory forms a bond with Teddy, who is a little boy who always has a sketchbook with him. Over time, his drawings of trees, rabbits, and balloons take on a sinister tone. Mallory starts to wonder if the pictures are glimpses of a long, unsolved murder, perhaps communicated by a supernatural force.

Kim: Oh boy. So I would say this falls into the category of a supernatural thriller. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, because it is. [00:21:00] Sometimes categorized with horror and I would say it's not a gory book. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, there is, there is the question if something otherworldly is happening. 

Stephanie: Well, and I feel like I was thinking about this while we were talking and preparing, where does horror fit into thriller?

Stephanie: Like that's a whole separate conversation 'cause horror. One of those genres that's really hard to nail down because it's different for everybody. Oh yeah. Well, 'cause 

Cate T.: I don't think of horror as necessarily being supernatural. Right. To me, those seem like potentially two separate genres. Yeah. Sub genre.

Cate T.: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. 

Stephanie: But a thriller's a lot of time border on horror depending on how you mm-hmm. Interpret horror. Right, right, right. Like you said, there's no gore, but they're supernatural. So to me, this is horror. 

Kim: Mm-hmm. I 

Stephanie: don't 

Kim: know. 

Stephanie: That's a whole separate episode. Yeah. It wouldn't take hours. You can definitely go down a rabbit hole with that.

Stephanie: Yes. 

Cate T.: Rabbit holes all over today. Yes. So what about this book sparked your interest, Kim? 

Kim: Okay, so I read this book [00:22:00] for, uh, my book club this month. Oh. And. Once I picked it up, I was really intrigued because it's rare to read an adult book that's illustrated. 

Kim: Mm. 

Kim: Um, and this book is particularly interesting because the drawings aren't just illustrations.

Kim: They actually forward the plot and give clues to the mystery that's unfolding. So Teddy's pictures become more and more unsettling, showing details from a murder that happened before he was born. The drawings evolve from the simple stick figures of a child to much more detailed works of art. Mm-hmm. So they change throughout the story.

Kim: Um, and that makes it, that made me question if Teddy is really the one drawing the pictures or someone else is guiding his hand. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. I'm getting you. This sounds creepy. Yeah, it's creepy. 

Briana: And Brianna, you read this one too, right? So what's funny is my book club read it. I didn't get to go to the meeting.

Briana: Oh, okay. But I read it a month late. 'cause I realized they read it and I was like, oh my gosh. I'm like behind. So I went and grabbed it at the bookstore and [00:23:00] I was like, oh wow. Like it was good. 

Kim: Right? Yeah. And I, I didn't know much about this author, so I had no, no concept of what I was getting into. 

Cate T.: Mm-hmm.

Cate T.: And so I'm still thinking about the illustrations. So in the book there, they're intended to be his drawings. The 

Kim: little boys drawings. The little boys 

Cate T.: drawings, yes. Yeah. But the drawings themselves, themselves, themselves change themselves. Yeah. Change drastically throughout the pages of the book. Book.

Cate T.: Okay. Mm-hmm. All 

Kim: right. But some of the scaries images are actually the stick figures. Yeah. Those are 

Briana: more creepy than the actual like Blair witch style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kim: Oh 

Briana: yeah. 'cause it's, it's a cool way, like you were saying, to move the plot along because you're getting a visual with like mm-hmm. Like the text can give you a visual in your head, but now you literally have a visual and you're like, A child is drawing this, excuse me.

Cate T.: I always think everything's scarier when it involves kids. That that sounds like a weird thing to say. Right? No, no, it's 

Stephanie: true. And my other thought was, if you did this on an audio. You would miss out on [00:24:00] huge pieces of the plot. Yes, for sure. So you'd have to seek that out because you're missing a lot. 

Kim: Yeah.

Kim: Someone from my book club actually did listen to the audio book. Oh, okay. And so she came in and she's like, I don't understand. There were pictures with this book. And I'm like, and we were all like, you missed a big Yeah. Part of what was going on. 

Stephanie: The audio book should tell you like pause, 

Kim: look it up. Yeah.

Kim: Be a companion. Like set a PDF or something. Yeah. 'cause I know some do that. Yes. 

Cate T.: Wild. So. So was there anything or anyone in this book that you identified with, 

Kim: well it's interesting, Brianna, that you mentioned that your protagonist is a fish out of water because there's definitely that vibe happening in this book as well.

Kim: So, Mallory is from Philadelphia. She has gone through a really traumatic time, and I won't go into the details because it does kind of inform the book, but she kind of walks into the situation where it's an affluent community. It's very, you know, there. People don't understand her experience. She has to [00:25:00] decide whether or not she's going to tell people her experience.

Kim: Mm-hmm. So it kind of adds to, um, it just adds to the uncertainty of the book because she never feels like she's quite, you know, she doesn't feel centered because this is not her social element. Right. And so I'm not sure that I, I vibed with that so much as I, I felt. Empathy. 

Cate T.: Yeah, yeah, 

Kim: yeah. 'cause I mean, it's funny, I actually, I went to Brown University, which has dark academia vibes depending on what corner of it you were part of.

Kim: And so, yeah, it actually did kind of remind me of that. 'cause I was not, you know, I was just like a kid from Connecticut. Yeah. I was like, this is great. But like, yeah, we, my friends and I used to joke that there were two brown universities. There were the one, there was the one that the elite people like.

Kim: Tracy Ellis Ross, who is, was a fabulous person. It's the 

Stephanie: second time she's come up for me today. That's really weird. Really weird. She was 

Kim: really cool. She's same year as me. Oh, amazing. And, um, we [00:26:00] had a, we had the same costume design class together. And so funny aside, we were talking about different fashion designers.

Kim: We. Each did a little report, and so she, uh, presented on Azad Aya, and she was like, he was just so sweet. Every time we go see him, you know, he's just, he opens up his salon, he's so generous, and I'm like, oh my God, I got all of my, you know, I had done Karl Lagerfeld and, you know, it's like, well, according to Vogue, he's a really quirky guy.

Kim: Yep. And he has a cat. You're like, I am the normie here. Yes, exactly. So I can definitely understand being in a situation where you don't feel like you understand all of the social cues Yeah. Going on around you. But, and I have to say too, the pictures really stayed with me. I was telling Stephanie, this is the first time that I've read a book where uh, you know, I actually had a jump scare.

Kim: 'cause the first time you're looking at this little boy's. Pictures, his drawings, they suddenly take a turn and you're just like, [00:27:00] I was just like, whoa, whoa. And I had to like stop and put the book aside. 'cause it was so, again, it wasn't gory, but it was just deeply unsettling. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Anything that really gets in your head, I find that, that sometimes I need to step away.

Cate T.: Yeah. I can't. I got a, I need a minute. 

Stephanie: Sometimes they refer to it as putting the book in the freezer. Have you ever heard this term? I've from friends, yes. So the book is too scary. You put it in the freezer. Yes, yes. There's, I've never heard, there's a whole horror podcast called Books in the Freezer, and it's about this love that, never heard of that before, but also interesting observation.

Stephanie: All three of us picked books that had female protagonists. Yeah, yeah. Which I feel is really also pretty crucial to thrillers. You read so many more than I do, but it's a lot of times's, a protagonist, it's usually a female. Makes sense to me because, you know, female protagonists are able to be in that space where.

Stephanie: Peop. They don't know what to trust. They don't know which information is real. There's a lot of like gaslighting happening, which unfortunately lends itself really well to a female protagonist. And now I'm like, Ooh. I'm like icky about it. [00:28:00] Yeah. No, but Right. Like all the thrillers we read, most of them are women.

Stephanie: Women, right? Yeah. And women in 

Kim: peril. Yes. Um, yes. Which is one reason why when people ask me what genres I like, sometimes I don't mention thrillers. Mm-hmm. Because that's an aspect to them that I don't, I don't like. 

Stephanie: Yeah. And you don't wanna be pigeonholed into people thinking you only read books about distressed women.

Kim: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Even if you do, I was about to say. Well, and sometimes they, they end up, you know. Oh, I was gonna say kicking it. Uh, sometimes, sometimes they end up, um, rebounding pretty hard and being pretty fierce, so, you know. 

Cate T.: Yeah. The most recent thriller I read, I think it's called, none of This is True.

Cate T.: Yeah. Yes. That's 

Kim: by Lisa Jewel. 

Cate T.: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. And that was a, I don't even know what made me pick it up 'cause it was very outside what I would normally read. Yeah. Um, but there were two female main female characters. Mm-hmm. And it was, that was one that I. Afterwards, I was like, okay, what happened? You know, where did it Yes.

Cate T.: Like there was just so many twists and [00:29:00] turns. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, you, when there was two women, it's like you didn't know what to believe. Yeah. So it was, that one 

Briana: was phenomenal. It was crazy. 

Cate T.: Right? 

Briana: Oh, mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Cate T.: All right, Kim, so in your opinion mm-hmm. Mentioning the twist, does that spoil it for you?

Kim: Well, I don't know that it spoils it for me, but it definitely sets an expectation. Hmm. Um, you know, as, as some of us have already said, I kind of go in looking for the twist, right. So I'm not as likely to have it hit me as hard, and I don't like that. I do prefer to be surprised, which is one reason I, I liked this book so much.

Kim: I didn't know anything about the author. I didn't know what to expect. Um, so yeah, I like having that moment of like, wait, what? What happened? 

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah, you don't have any preconceived notions about it going in. Right. So that does, that does help. So how about too many twists? Um, is there such a thing?

Kim: Yes, I would say. Beyond two. You're really, um, wow. I've set the standard. You're, you, [00:30:00] you don't agree on that. Yeah. You're running the risk of really confusing the reader, and frankly, it annoys me for some of the reasons you were saying. Mm-hmm. It's like, did this person just not know how the book was gonna end?

Kim: And so they're just twisting it around so I get so confused. That's an ending. Yeah, it feels very unsatisfying. And one thing I'll say about hidden pictures, that was interesting. The twist felt very earned. And it's interesting to go back and look at the pictures because again, there are clues in the pictures and you know, kind of like, oh, okay, yes, this is where.

Kim: Things started to sort of come together. Yeah. Yeah. I recently read a book called The Last One by RI Sager, and I loved it. It completely drew me in, but it had like six twists at the end. He is super. Is the train one hit or miss? No, this is one that, that was the last, no, last. Um, yeah. No, this is set in like a creepy different manner, um, with a, a woman who's taking care of someone who.

Kim: Uh, an elderly woman who may or may [00:31:00] not have killed her family. 

Kim: Oh, 

Kim: I liked that one. It was really good. But at the end I was like, I can't remember. There were a couple of things that I was like, oh, that's interesting. Oh, I didn't see that coming. And then I was like, really? Sometimes 

Stephanie: it feels like he phones it in and sometimes it feels like he really came to the table.

Stephanie: But he write, writes so many books that they can't all be bangers. 

Kim: Right. I know that's true. Right? Yeah, that's a good point. Um, and I think pacing is really important too. Mm-hmm. Like the pacing of the twists in, uh, hidden pictures were really well done because, you know, there was the twist and I felt the impact.

Kim: Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh. This changes everything. And then it went further and there was another twist and I was like, oh, wow. So, but both of them felt earned. You had, and you had time to digest 

Cate T.: the twists 

Kim: between twists. 

Cate T.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You were ready for that. You were hungry for the next one.

Cate T.: Yeah. 

Kim: Whereas the ri Sager one was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I was like. He likes to do that. He does. 

Cate T.: So I kind of feel like I know [00:32:00] how you're gonna answer this, but would you recommend this book? Are there any caveats to who you would recommend this book to? 

Kim: Yeah. You know, it's interesting 'cause we've touched on this a little bit.

Kim: Um, you know, I do recommend the book if you understand, like what comes with thrillers. Um, there are definitely triggers, um, that some people will be sensitive to. Mm-hmm. Um, you know. Drug addiction. There are suggestions of child, child abuse. Mm-hmm. Um, although not physical, but also a lot of violence against women.

Kim: Mm. And even I got to the point where I was just like, this is, I may have to put this down 'cause this is just too much. Yeah. And again, it's psychological, it's not physical, but it was, it was unsettling. For sure. 

Cate T.: Now that's important to know. That's important to know. Do you feel like any of you are gonna be picking up thrillers in the near future?

Cate T.: Or do you feel like you're thriller out for a little while? 

Briana: Hmm. I alternate a lot when it comes to what I read. I feel like we all probably do something like that, where like right now I'm reading two regency romances, so I'm probably not gonna touch a romance [00:33:00] for a book or two. Yeah. 'cause I'm gonna get bored.

Briana: So I probably will default to like a horror or a thriller just to like change it up a little because like they're fun and I feel like when they're written well it's just something you can sit there and like binge in like a day or two. Yes. And that's what I like about them too. 'cause. If they are wr, like, in my opinion, written well, like I can just like a freedom.

Briana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I can sit there and read it and be like, oh, that was so good. Yeah. Yeah. Now I on something else. Fly through. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kim: As we were talking about early, earlier, Kate, they go down easy. They do go down easy. Mm-hmm. You sit down and then suddenly it's like you're at the end and it's so, it's so good.

Kim: So good. Yeah. They 

Cate T.: go down easy, but then sometimes they stay with you. Yes, yes. In an uncomfortable way. Like you need an anac acid or something after it can then, well, that's not so good. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right guys. Well thank you very much and we'll move on to the next section. Libraries are so much more than books, so we want you to know what's happening off the shelf this month at Russell Library.

Cate T.: For that, I'm gonna hand it over to Steph. 

Stephanie: Yeah, so we thought it'd be [00:34:00] fun to talk about. Our collections this month, specifically our collections for horror, for thrillers, for, um, seasonal reads. Brianna and I touched base to kind of talk about our specific collections and, and what's going on. So for readers that like these kinds of books, um, where you can find them, how you can find them, and what kind of books readers are requesting.

Stephanie: Yeah. Um, so Kate, who's not on today's episode, but you all know Kate. Kate and I have had to order a ton of horror books for our juvenile collection because our young readers cannot get it on. Hmm. They, and so like thrillers don't really exist for kids. Yeah. Yeah. You've got mysteries and you've got horror, but like thrillers don't really exist.

Stephanie: No. For the reasons we talked about, like the intensity. Mm-hmm. But scary books exist. Yeah. And these kids love them. Yeah. They are clamoring for them. So, um, but we find that many readers who want these books are between the ages of eight and 12. So the content in the YA collection is too mature for them.

Kim: Right. But they 

Stephanie: want scary books. So they want heart pounding books, but they want them age appropriate. Mm-hmm. So striking that balance can be really tricky. So [00:35:00] Kate and I have worked together to kind of just buy everything we can find that is labeled as horror, but is still age appropriate. Yeah. And then when those readers are ready to move up.

Stephanie: I have them in ya too. Yeah. Because I find that thrillers are really popular in ya, as Brianna knows. Yeah. Some of the best thrillers that come out are for young adults. Yep. They really just crank 'em out. Um, like Holly 

Briana: Jackson. 

Stephanie: Holly Jackson is 

Cate T.: excellent. She's popping off. Excellent. Mm-hmm. There might just be something about that age range.

Cate T.: Yes. 'cause like I said, that's when I got into it. Yeah, I was that like right in that tween early teens. I, it's, I, it's that age 

Stephanie: range of like, oh, I could do this. Mm-hmm. You see somebody your age solving a mystery Yeah. With high stakes and you, and you get to put yourself in that protagonists point of view.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. So I think they're really popular for that reason. Um, I also find that it's one of the genres that my young male readers gravitate toward, 

Kim: and 

Stephanie: that's a really hard demographic to cater towards. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I've had requests for thrillers come from mail readers, and I'm like, okay, if this is gonna hook you.

Stephanie: And keep you reading ya. 'cause otherwise they'll go to adult, which is fine. Yeah. But I [00:36:00] do want them reading ya and ya books are really geared towards women and femmes. So if I can hook some more male readers, I'm gonna buy all the fillers, I can do it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's juvenile And ya, I know Brianna has some stuff to say about 

Briana: adult.

Briana: I know that. It's the same thing with adults is that I feel like in the last couple years we've seen a lot more adults wanting to read thrillers, but also like horrors. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like all different types of horror. So what we started doing when we catalog here, probably in the last year, is we're actually putting horror stickers on the books that are specifically horror.

Briana: We're leaving thrillers kind of interfiled with mystery or just like regular fiction. But I know for myself as someone who likes horror, if I'm in the mood for that. What better way to find it than looking for a sticker? That's what I do. I love stickers. What I'm looking for is I go to adult 

Stephanie: and I just scan for horror.

Stephanie: I'm like, boop. 

Briana: Yeah. Yep. So we've really liked doing that in processing and that when I'm ordering, I try to kind of keep an eye on like, alright, what big names [00:37:00] are coming out with books? Um, or does that cover look really cool? 'cause someone's gonna wanna read it besides me. Yeah. Um, so we're ordering a lot more of that and I feel like people are talking about it more too.

Briana: We had, um. A display this summer for summer reading that had different genres on it. And the horror section of it kept going so fast. Yes. Interesting. Like, Stephanie, I remember you telling us like Yeah. You directed patrons to it numerous times. Yeah, I have a, which was really cool to hear. So I have a 

Stephanie: patron who comes in, has a 13-year-old but loves horror.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And so is running out of young adult books to read even. And this parent has parameters. She said she can read whatever she wants. I don't care about the violence, I don't care about the gore, as long as there's no sexual content. Mm-hmm. And I said, okay. But you know, that gets dicey. Yeah. In ya. So I brought her over to the adult display and I was like, okay, which of these will be okay for her?

Stephanie: So I really had to be picky. Yeah. And discerning. But I was like, Hey, she can read like she reads Riley Sager. I'm like, okay, you could read off the adult display. Let me just double check the content because I don't want you to take this book home and be like, what [00:38:00] did you give my child? Yes. Right. But yeah, she, so picture for that mom.

Stephanie: Yeah. For Oh yeah. For opening it up and yeah. Just giving some solid boundaries there. Yeah. I have a couple of, um, caregivers that will come in and be like, here's what I want for my kid. Here are my parameters. And they're always different. And sometimes I'm a little surprised, but I'm like, Hey, if no sexual violence is your line, but they can read whatever else Yeah.

Stephanie: Have at it. If you're talking to your kids about their content, then great. 

Cate T.: Yeah. We're gonna, at another conversation, we'll have to talk about why you think horror is such a. Hot genre right now. I have lots of thoughts. So, yeah. Well that, that's gonna be for a future, for a future conversation. Yeah, 

Briana: absolutely.

Briana: But I would say regardless of whether you are a Russell Library patron or you're a patron elsewhere, your library probably curates its own horror collections. Mm-hmm. And all across the different. Departments and ages, and 

Stephanie: if they don't, 

Briana: there's at least one librarian who is the horror librarian. Yes. Find that librarian and you are good to go.

Briana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, but you can always request books too. I know. Here we have a, uh, [00:39:00] purchase slash inter-library loan request form. Mm-hmm. Um, so you can fill that out and request books that you might not be seeing on the shelf that may the librarians that are purchasing aren't aware of. Yeah. Yeah. So that way you get them on the shelf for you and for other people that like horror like you do.

Briana: Mm-hmm. Love that. Yeah. 

Cate T.: Yeah. Thank you both. That's that's good information. And for other librarians that might be listening, if they don't have those fun stickers, they should definitely get them. Yeah, get the stickers. It's very easy for the reader to find what they want. Absolutely. All right, well, it is time to close the book on today's episode.

Cate T.: If you like what you've heard here, please subscribe to the show. This ensures that you won't miss any episodes. And if you have a moment, kindly rate and review the podcast because this helps other bookish people like yourself. Find the show. Tune in next month to find out what else is on the shelf.

Cate T.: Thank you all. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bunnies.

Stephanie: That was perfect. Why did you a meeting [00:40:00] that was so fun? I couldn't talk for another hour. Yes. My 

Cate T.: so cognizant of the 

Stephanie: time. I know. I was like it. It's 2 56. 

Woo.